Board Thread:Plants vs. Zombies 2/@comment-27101994-20170422033653/@comment-24275721-20170423173420

Gaming Center wrote: TheGollddMAN wrote: Gaming Center wrote: TheGollddMAN wrote: Gaming Center wrote: TheGollddMAN wrote: Gaming Center wrote: TheGollddMAN wrote: Gaming Center wrote: TheGollddMAN wrote: Gaming Center wrote: TheGollddMAN wrote: Gaming Center wrote: Fairy27 wrote: TheGollddMAN wrote: Gaming Center wrote: TheGollddMAN wrote: I will message them about this. If anyone out there wants thIs as well, they also should let Popcap know that we want costume abilities unique to each one (only the ones that are officially available otherwise they will have tons to program for if we count the hidden ones). Maybe but not as a direct buff but rather a balanced change.

Maybe for example: Citron's costume could change it's ability to faster but weaker shots or slower but stronger. It is possible but the Chinese abilities would be good as well like that electrocuting thing in a 3 x 3 area after using Plant Food.

I believe Citron has only one officially released costume (the blender). So if we are to implement your method, it has to be something that doesn't directly clash with the leveling system as it increases projectile damage and also reduces charging time. True, and speaking of costume abilities, I dreamt one time the plants with hero costumes (only applies to the officially released ones: Hero costumes for Bonk Choy, Fume-shroom and Torchwood) with the following abilities applied:


 * Bonk Choy Hero Costume - The area range when fed by Plant Food is increased from 3x3 to 5x3.


 * Fume-shroom Hero Costume - Can poison zombies and spawn Puff-shrooms when a zombie is defeated from its poison Totally replacing Witch Hazel.


 * Torchwood Hero Costume - Any Peashooter plants behind the Torchwood gets its peas' attack multiplied x3.

There are many other costumes I am thinking of the abilities... I'd like to have smth a bit more balanced. Direct buffs take out the challenge from the game (that's why I refuse to upgrade a single plant). As I said in my other post, I'd like to see some sort of ability change with a good and bad side. Chinese version gives direct buffs to plants (with those pots no less) and I don't see people complaining there in those threads as much as in these ones.

Here's my train of thought: If I get a reward that has a good and bad side, then why would I invest time to get that reward? Let's say that if this system is implemented, costumes will also require some things to upgrade meaning more time and effort in upgrading them. If I get something that has disadvantages as well, why would I get it? Of course people would want something that actually is rewarding instead of being unabated for wasting their time with something. The leveling system had one complaint that it cannot be turned off. But costumes can be unequipped. So I don't see a problem with direct buffs. Don't like it, don't equip it; simple as that. I am not even talking about Chinese version because that game is basically impossible without cheats to get upgrades and non-existent difficulty with them.

But in PvZ 2, I'd like to see some sort of choosing my strategy by picking preffered abilities for plants.

Seriosly plants never needed any additional buffs, most of them are already kinda op. I brought up the Chinese version since that also has direct buffs but people never complain about it. If you're gonna complain, be consistent.

Even after the leveling system I still choose my plants with different abilities. There can still be variety even with max plants in your arsenal. There are even more ways to pick plants as now some plants have additional abilities thus switching up gameplay. Heck, I pick Bowling Bulb as my primary offense nowadays when I never did that before. People just like to complain when something they don't have context to gets introduced (like everyone and their mother started losing their sh*t when the worlds based seed packets were introduced). Saying there's no strategy anymore is just an excuse they come up with as they themselves have a one track closed mind. You can still have fun and strategise with max plants. And no, I disagree that most plants are OP. Not even close. If you think most plants overpowered compared to zombies, you need better eyes or need to properly learn what overpowered basically means (as people like to throw that word around like candies apparently). Plants were weaker compared to the newer set of zombies that were constantly introduced in later parts of a world and was a pain in Endless Zones as well. They couldn't deal with a situation properly and thus this system of upgrading was introduced (considering this game also has dynamic difficulty). Most tower defense games offer upgrades and this is no exception. Complaining never did good and as we can all see it never did any good in reality. Since this system is optional, that's the only kind of solace you have, otherwise, you can break walls crying. Most of endless zones are quite easy to deal with just by using Winter Melons with few zombies that can cause pain.With max leveled plants, you can pick no matter what and still easily win because every offensive plant will do crapton of damage. Their demo level of leveling system shows a little group of Peashooters crushing many strong zombies like they were nothing. The first point of people's complaints were that the leveling sytem would make players pick only a few set of plants and that's it but here if I keep picking WInter Melon that makes your point moot. If anything, the leveling sytem allows more diverse plant pickings.

I can safely pick plants in any Endless Zones without needing Winter melon like everyone does. Damage is a given in upgrades, that's normal. What matters is that in this type of game, I can now pick an array of plants in levels I (and many others) didn't pick before. This system makes some of the most useless plants relevant again instead of only relying on a few like you said (like people who uses Puff-shroom as a stalling plant can use it even better as such compared to level 1 standards). Stop blinding yourself with this clouded judgement.

You can basically choose any plant and win with ease, that's not challenging at all. You have to keep picking certain plants to win without leveling, that's not fun at all. Also I love how you keep talking about challenge and yet refer the one plant to be picked for Endless Zones in order to avoid the challenge; real consistent there. Also you talk about challenge but you were one of the ones to talk bad about the star system which was genuinely challenging. Your hypocrisy hasn't changed one bit in all these times. I actually did not said that star system was bad, I even think that it should be put back. Not what you said back when people wanted the linear progression and some (like me) wanted stars back. You wanted them to stay linear as it was too tough for you to gather stars to unlock worlds. Objectives back then were brutal with many people bashing on it (most of those argue about "challenge" nowadays while bringing up the Power Plants when the game got washed up on difficulty quite a bit). Lmao what, you eighter misremembered that or maybe I said it in a sarcastic way.

I always preffered old map style over the new one. No, sarcasm is not your forte. While I canot exactly quote what you said as it's way back, you are clearly denying now that you prefer easy solutions to challenges and still hate on the Power Plants because you dislike it. You have no proper counter to why it is bad other than "challenge" when you suggest Winter melon for an easy outing. This system makes the game more diverse as it makes less favorite plants much more of an option than what we understand them to be and the one thing I will agree that it needed a less grindy system or maybe an option to turn it on and off, but you don't have credibility for talking about challenge.

Plants like Pepper-pult, Puff-shroom, Bowling Bulb, Chomper, Pea-nut, Guacodile (the projectiles), Lightning Reed all got better in some way due to this system when they were basically part of the forgotten bunch. Now they are actually worth picking in a level. In levels with limited sun, plants that got reduced sun cost can be picked instead of just a few options. This system has its disadvantages but the advantges outweigh those. Puff-shroom is a 0 cost plant, it doesn't need a buff. Pepper-pult could get a faster recharge, Chomper needs to have shorter animations and could maybe get faster eating speed, Pea-nut is balanced for it's cost, Bowling Bulb could recharge it's bigger projectiles even when zombies are in front of it but change it's cost to 250 or 225 and Lightning Reed could get a bigger damage buff by making it's cost higher.

But a feature which just makes all plants op as hell and all levels easy is just a wrong thing to do. If you seriously struggle so much or can't beat a level, that's what power ups and purchasable plant food are for. It needed a buff in timer which it got on top of damage, Pepper-pult did get a faster recharge which it needed, CHomper got shorter chewing time which it desperately needed. All plants that were useless or was situational before got useful to the point that people who have them can now effectively use them (keyword being effectively).

ALL UPGRADES IN TOWER DEFENSE GAMES MAKE THEM STRONGER. EVERY SINGLE DAMN ONE OF THEM. THIS ISN'T SUCH A NEW MECHANIC IN GAMING INDUSTRY. If I struggle with a level, I may use powerups or plant food which just as easily break a level as these Power Plants. I can shovel and plant at my leisure which still breaks the challeneg of a game and similar goes with powerups. I can hack coins and then use them over and over on powerups so that I won't even need to put a plant on the lawn.

'''THERE ARE EXISTING WAYS TO BREAK THE GAME AND YOU'RE WORRIED ABOUT A SINGLE LEVELING CONCEPT? WHAT KIND OF BALANCING ARGUMENT ARE YOU BRINGING UP HERE WHEN YOU TALK BAD ABOUT ONE OF THEM BUT THEN SUGGEST THE OTHER TWO WHICH JUST AS EASILY BREAKS THE FREAKING GAME!!!!!!!! '''